Difference between revisions of "Relative Aggro of Warrior Skills"

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(Archiving a useful reference post...)
 
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Notes:
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Notes:<br>
EVERY NUMBER IS ROUGH. NOTHING IS FINITE. THIS IS MEANT TO MERELY BE A GENERAL REFERENCE FOR COMPARISON.
+
EVERY NUMBER IS ROUGH. NOTHING IS FINITE. THIS IS MEANT TO MERELY BE A GENERAL REFERENCE FOR COMPARISON.<br>
I am no scientist, but I was very careful and methodical in my tests. That said, there very well may be awful math/logic errors within.
+
I am no scientist, but I was very careful and methodical in my tests. That said, there very well may be awful math/logic errors within.<br>
All attacks were done by a warrior with defiance and in defensive stance.
+
All attacks were done by a warrior with defiance and in defensive stance.<br>
All healing was done by a holy/disc priest with the 20% threat reducing talent.
+
All healing was done by a holy/disc priest with the 20% threat reducing talent.<br>
With this setup, tests were performed beforehand to determine the healing/damage hate ratio.
+
With this setup, tests were performed beforehand to determine the healing/damage hate ratio.<br>
1 point of damage = 4.1 points of healing = 4.1 hate
+
1 point of damage = 4.1 points of healing = 4.1 hate<br>
Hate per point of rage does include damage, and assumes 50% damage reduction on the opponent.
+
Hate per point of rage does include damage, and assumes 50% damage reduction on the opponent.<br>
There is a margin of error, but I tried to minimize it as much as possible. The primary source of error was the minimum healing possible is 52.
+
There is a margin of error, but I tried to minimize it as much as possible. The primary source of error was the minimum healing possible is 52.<br>
  
  
SKILL NAME
+
SKILL NAME<br>
rage cost
+
rage cost<br>
listed damage before armor
+
listed damage before armor<br>
attached hate, does NOT include damage the skill produces
+
attached hate, does NOT include damage the skill produces<br>
hate per point of rage, DOES include damage -- formula: [ ((hateMin + hateMax)/2) + (((DamageMin + DamageMax)/2)/2) * 4.1 ] / RageCost
+
hate per point of rage, DOES include damage -- formula: [ ((hateMin + hateMax)/2) + (((DamageMin + DamageMax)/2)/2) * 4.1 ] / RageCost<br>
perks: qualitative reasons to use a certain skill
+
perks: qualitative reasons to use a certain skill<br>
bad stuff: bad stuff
+
bad stuff: bad stuff<br>
 +
<br>
  
 +
REVENGE<br>
 +
5 rage<br>
 +
64-78 damage<br>
 +
1200-1250 hate<br>
 +
274 hate per point of rage<br>
 +
perks: chance to stun with talents, fair damage for rage cost<br>
 +
bad stuff: unreliable, and often requires use of a 10 rage skill to allow its use<br>
  
REVENGE
 
5 rage
 
64-78 damage
 
1200-1250 hate
 
274 hate per point of rage
 
perks: chance to stun with talents, fair damage for rage cost
 
bad stuff: unreliable, and often requires use of a 10 rage skill to allow its use
 
  
 +
SUNDER ARMOR<br>
 +
12 rage (15 without talents)<br>
 +
no damage<br>
 +
1050-1150 hate<br>
 +
92 hate per point of rage<br>
 +
perks: lowers target armor, no cooldown<br>
 +
bad stuff:<br>
  
SUNDER ARMOR
 
12 rage (15 without talents)
 
no damage
 
1050-1150 hate
 
92 hate per point of rage
 
perks: lowers target armor, no cooldown
 
bad stuff:
 
  
 +
SHIELD SLAM<br>
 +
30 rage<br>
 +
288-352 damage<br>
 +
160-210 hate<br>
 +
28 hate per point of rage<br>
 +
perks: 50% chance to dispell 1 magic effect, good damage<br>
 +
bad stuff: very poor efficiency<br>
  
SHIELD SLAM
 
30 rage
 
288-352 damage
 
160-210 hate
 
28 hate per point of rage
 
perks: 50% chance to dispell 1 magic effect, good damage
 
bad stuff: very poor efficiency
 
  
 +
SHIELD BASH<br>
 +
10 rage<br>
 +
45 damage<br>
 +
700-750 hate<br>
 +
82 hate per point of rage<br>
 +
perks: spell interruption, silences for 3 seconds with talents<br>
 +
bad stuff: long cooldown, spamming of the skill means it won't be available when needed<br>
  
SHIELD BASH
 
10 rage
 
45 damage
 
700-750 hate
 
82 hate per point of rage
 
perks: spell interruption, silences for 3 seconds with talents
 
bad stuff: long cooldown, spamming of the skill means it won't be available when needed
 
  
 +
HEROIC STRIKE<br>
 +
15 rage<br>
 +
138 damage<br>
 +
580-630 hate<br>
 +
59 hate per point of rage<br>
 +
perks: good damage, cooldown is weapon speed<br>
 +
bad stuff: hinders rage production from attacks, is on-next-attack so it interrupts the use of other skills while you wait for it to fire<br>
  
HEROIC STRIKE
 
15 rage
 
138 damage
 
580-630 hate
 
59 hate per point of rage
 
perks: good damage, cooldown is weapon speed
 
bad stuff: hinders rage production from attacks, is on-next-attack so it interrupts the use of other skills while you wait for it to fire
 
  
 +
Final words:<br>
 +
Shield slam is awful. Revenge is best used whenever possible, as any warrior could have told you before. Retuning of shield slam is desperately needed as a 31 point talent should not be far outshined by heroic strike.<br>
  
Final words:
+
Although it may be unrelated to this thread, protection warriors need a tanking edge of more than 10% armor. Managing hate is the only thing protection warriors have a clear advantage in, but honestly, in the raiding game any warrior can hold aggro just fine.<br>
Shield slam is awful. Revenge is best used whenever possible, as any warrior could have told you before. Retuning of shield slam is desperately needed as a 31 point talent should not be far outshined by heroic strike.
 
  
Although it may be unrelated to this thread, protection warriors need a tanking edge of more than 10% armor. Managing hate is the only thing protection warriors have a clear advantage in, but honestly, in the raiding game any warrior can hold aggro just fine.
+
The damage reduction was assumed to be 50% for calculating hate from skill's damage. Obviously, lower armor targets favor the damaging skills over sunder armor.<br>
  
The damage reduction was assumed to be 50% for calculating hate from skill's damage. Obviously, lower armor targets favor the damaging skills over sunder armor.
+
And finally, note that the 4.1 healing to damage ratio is only useful for a protection warrior in defensive stance with a priest that has the -20% threat talent healing. That number is more of a reference point for measuring everything else.<br>
 
 
And finally, note that the 4.1 healing to damage ratio is only useful for a protection warrior in defensive stance with a priest that has the -20% threat talent healing. That number is more of a reference point for measuring everything else.
 

Revision as of 22:04, 12 July 2005

Editor - yet another Blizz forum post destined to drop off in a matter of days that does not deserve to be forgotten.

Original poster "Cop" of the Deathwing server. original thread


Notes:
EVERY NUMBER IS ROUGH. NOTHING IS FINITE. THIS IS MEANT TO MERELY BE A GENERAL REFERENCE FOR COMPARISON.
I am no scientist, but I was very careful and methodical in my tests. That said, there very well may be awful math/logic errors within.
All attacks were done by a warrior with defiance and in defensive stance.
All healing was done by a holy/disc priest with the 20% threat reducing talent.
With this setup, tests were performed beforehand to determine the healing/damage hate ratio.
1 point of damage = 4.1 points of healing = 4.1 hate
Hate per point of rage does include damage, and assumes 50% damage reduction on the opponent.
There is a margin of error, but I tried to minimize it as much as possible. The primary source of error was the minimum healing possible is 52.


SKILL NAME
rage cost
listed damage before armor
attached hate, does NOT include damage the skill produces
hate per point of rage, DOES include damage -- formula: [ ((hateMin + hateMax)/2) + (((DamageMin + DamageMax)/2)/2) * 4.1 ] / RageCost
perks: qualitative reasons to use a certain skill
bad stuff: bad stuff

REVENGE
5 rage
64-78 damage
1200-1250 hate
274 hate per point of rage
perks: chance to stun with talents, fair damage for rage cost
bad stuff: unreliable, and often requires use of a 10 rage skill to allow its use


SUNDER ARMOR
12 rage (15 without talents)
no damage
1050-1150 hate
92 hate per point of rage
perks: lowers target armor, no cooldown
bad stuff:


SHIELD SLAM
30 rage
288-352 damage
160-210 hate
28 hate per point of rage
perks: 50% chance to dispell 1 magic effect, good damage
bad stuff: very poor efficiency


SHIELD BASH
10 rage
45 damage
700-750 hate
82 hate per point of rage
perks: spell interruption, silences for 3 seconds with talents
bad stuff: long cooldown, spamming of the skill means it won't be available when needed


HEROIC STRIKE
15 rage
138 damage
580-630 hate
59 hate per point of rage
perks: good damage, cooldown is weapon speed
bad stuff: hinders rage production from attacks, is on-next-attack so it interrupts the use of other skills while you wait for it to fire


Final words:
Shield slam is awful. Revenge is best used whenever possible, as any warrior could have told you before. Retuning of shield slam is desperately needed as a 31 point talent should not be far outshined by heroic strike.

Although it may be unrelated to this thread, protection warriors need a tanking edge of more than 10% armor. Managing hate is the only thing protection warriors have a clear advantage in, but honestly, in the raiding game any warrior can hold aggro just fine.

The damage reduction was assumed to be 50% for calculating hate from skill's damage. Obviously, lower armor targets favor the damaging skills over sunder armor.

And finally, note that the 4.1 healing to damage ratio is only useful for a protection warrior in defensive stance with a priest that has the -20% threat talent healing. That number is more of a reference point for measuring everything else.