Relative Aggro of Warrior Skills

Original poster "Cop" of the Deathwing server. original thread

---

Relative hate values (updated for 1.7 patch)

The tests were performed by proximity aggro'ing a level 56 melee mob with the warrior. I first found a ratio of damagehate:healinghate, a number that came out to 4.0 in defensive stance with my warrior/priest combo. For the trials, I would perform each skill anywhere form 1 to 6 or more times, then begin healing. At the point the priest got aggro, I summed the healing, subtracted (damage dealt * 4.0), and divided by the number of times the skill was done. Each trial has been repeated at least 10 times, and my results were extremely consistent. This is primarily useful as a guide to relative hate values.

This is the post's third iteration. Data has been retested thoroughly and updated as of the 1.7 patch on the test server.

If you see an errors please point them out.

Assumptions

   * All healing spells create the same hate per point healing. Crudely confirmed before tests.

   * Hate does not decay over time. Observation suggests this holds true.

   * Initial hate is negligible (a 50 point heal pulls aggro)

Findings

   * They fixed shield slam! Before 1.7 the innate hate value worked out to around 200, it is now closer to 1000. See its entry for the test results as of the 1.7 test patch.

   * The damage done by skills (such as the 450-550 of shield slam) incurs hate equal to normal melee damage. Each skill has a set amount of hate attached (I call it "innate" hate) when the skill lands on a mob. The existance of this "innate" hate is determined mainly through crits. A heroic strike crit, for example, will do (innate hate+damage) worth of hate, not (2*total hate).

   * Cleave has extra hate attached to it much like heroic strike.

   * Whirlwind, Mortal Strike, and Bloodthirst have no innate hate.

   * Piercing howl is absolutely zero (or an immesurably low amount of) hate.

   * Sunder armor is the same amount of hate per application, regardless of how many sunders are already on. The same is true for demoralizing shout and thunderclap.

   * The sunder armor debuff seems completely independent of the hate it generates. Hate does not decrease when the debuff wears off and, as mentioned above, multiple applications, even beyond the stackable limit, will give just as much hate as the first.

   * Shield bash damage is independent of the innate hate it produces, as with other skills. Thus, shield bash crits only produce hate equal to the extra 44 or 45 damage.

   * Heroic strike is a surprisingly high amount of hate, and has very acceptable efficiency with talents, against low armor, and with a fast weapon.

   * The shield block/revenge combo is only marginally better for hate generation than sunder armor (with talents). The exception is that shield block (with talents) often forces two consecutive revenge openings, and the mitigated damage is an obvious bonus.

   * Shield slam was about 200 innate hate in 1.6. It is close to 1000 now.

   * Skills and attacks create roughly 1.65 times more hate in defensive stance than in battle stance.

Notes

   * No number is exact. This is more of a loose guide.

   * I was very careful and methodical in my tests. Overhealing and other interfering factors were kept to a minimum (hopefully zero!).

   * All attacks were done by a warrior with defiance and in defensive stance unless otherwise noted.

   * The warrior has improved shield bash and does not have any level of improved revenge.

   * All healing was done by a holy/disc priest with the 20% threat reducing talent and inspiration (which I have determined to be aggro-free).

   * With this setup, tests were performed beforehand to determine the healing/damage hate ratio. 1 point of damage = 4.0 points of healing = 4.0 hate

   * Hate per point of rage does include damage.

   * There is a margin of error, but I tried to minimize it as much as possible. The primary source of error is the fact that the minimum healing increment is 52.

Skill Name
-Rage cost.
-Listed damage before armor is applied, taken directly from the tooltip.
-Attached or "innate" hate. This is completely independent of the damage the skill produces. It is purely a hidden "bonus blast" of hate when the skill lands successfully.
-Total hate including damage under varying armor levels.
-Hate per point of rage. This number indicates efficiency if you're wondering how best to dump your rage. Once again, it does include damage.
Formula used in #5: [ ((HateMin + HateMax)/2) + (((DamageMin + DamageMax)/2) * (1-DamageReduction) * 4.0 ] / RageCost
-perks: qualitative reasons to use a certain skill
-negs: negative stuff about the skill

Revenge
5 rage
64-78 damage
1200-1250 "innate" hate

   * 0% Damage Reduction

   * 1510 total hate

   * 302 hate per point rage

   * 25% Damage Reduction

   * 1440 total hate

   * 288 hate per point rage

   * 50% Damage Reduction

   * 1370 total hate

   * 273 hate per point rage

perks: very high efficiency, chance to stun with talents, fair damage for rage cost
negs: unreliable, and often requires use of a 10 rage skill to allow its use

Shield Slam
30 rage
450-550 damage
925-975 "innate" hate

   * 0% Damage Reduction

   * 2950 total hate

   * 98 hate per point rage

   * 25% Damage Reduction

   * 2450 total hate

   * 82 hate per point rage

   * 50% Damage Reduction

   * 1950 total hate

   * 65 hate per point rage

perks: 50% chance to dispell 1 magic effect, good damage, much improved efficiency as of test patch 1.7
negs: efficiency is very dependent on armor

Thunderclap
20 rage
103 damage (in battle stance, hate modifier of 2.25)
200-250 "innate" hate

   * 0% Damage Reduction

   * 460 total hate

   * 23 hate per point rage

   * 25% Damage Reduction

   * 400 total hate

   * 20 hate per point rage

   * 50% Damage Reduction

   * 340 total hate

   * 17 hate per point rage

perks: 10% attack rate debuff, affects up to 4 targets
negs: must be used in battle stance, breaks CC

Sunder Armor
12 rage (15 without talents)
no damage
1025-1075 "innate" hate
1050 total hate
88 hate per point rage (70 without talents)
perks: lowers target armor, no cooldown
negs: Some claim aggro is spotty with sunder armor when the debuff gets pushed off, when the debuff expires, or when it's stacked more than 5 times. My findings suggest none of this is true.

Shield Bash
10 rage
45 damage (ignores armor)
725-775 "innate" hate
930 total hate
93 hate per point rage
perks: spell interruption, silences for 3 seconds with talents
negs: long cooldown, spamming of the skill means it won't be available when needed

Demorializing Shout
10 rage
no damage
165-185 "innate" hate
175 total hate
18 hate per point rage
perks: attack power debuff, unlimited targets
negs: very low rage efficiency

Heroic Strike at 3 rage per swing
15 rage (18 without talents)
138 damage
590-630 "innate" hate

   * 0% Damage Reduction

   * 1160 total hate

   * 77 hate per point rage (65 without talents)

   * 25% Damage Reduction

   * 1020 total hate

   * 68 hate per point rage (57 without talents)

   * 50% Damage Reduction

   * 890 total hate

   * 59 hate per point rage (49 without talents)

perks: good damage, cooldown is weapon speed, doesn't interfere with global cooldown
negs: hinders rage production from attacks, is on-next-attack so it prevents the use of other skills if you wait for it to fire

Heroic Strike at 7 rage per swing
19 rage (22 without talents)
138 damage
590-630 "innate" hate

   * 0% Damage Reduction

   * 1160 total hate

   * 61 hate per point rage (53 without talents)

   * 25% Damage Reduction

   * 1020 total hate

   * 54 hate per point rage (47 without talents)

   * 50% Damage Reduction

   * 890 total hate

   * 47 hate per point rage (40 without talents)

perks: good damage, cooldown is weapon speed, doesn't interfere with global cooldown
negs: hinders rage production from attacks, is on-next-attack so it prevents the use of other skills if you wait for it to fire

Cleave at 3 rage per swing
23 rage
50 damage (110 with talents)
370-420 "innate" hate

   * 0% Damage Reduction

   * 590 total hate (830 with talents)

   * 26 hate per point rage (36 with talents)

   * 25% Damage Reduction

   * 540 total hate (720 with talents)

   * 23 hate per point rage (31 with talents)

   * 50% Damage Reduction

   * 490 total hate (610 with talents)

   * 21 hate per point rage (27 with talents)

perks: hits two targets, cooldown is weapon speed, more than doubled efficiency if a second enemy is in frontal arc, fair damage, doesn't interfere with global cooldown
negs: hinders rage production from attacks, is on-next-attack so it prevents the use of other skills if you wait for it to fire

Cleave at 7 rage per swing
27 rage
50 damage (110 with talents)
370-420 "innate" hate

   * 0% Damage Reduction

   * 590 total hate (830 with talents)

   * 22 hate per point rage (31 with talents)

   * 25% Damage Reduction

   * 540 total hate (720 with talents)

   * 20 hate per point rage (27 with talents)

   * 50% Damage Reduction

   * 490 total hate (610 with talents)

   * 18 hate per point rage (23 with talents)

perks: hits two targets, cooldown is weapon speed, more than doubled efficiency if a second enemy is in frontal arc, fair damage, doesn't interfere with global cooldown
negs: hinders rage production from attacks, is on-next-attack so it prevents the use of other skills if you wait for it to fire

Bloodrage
20 rage generated
337 damage to a level 60 player (168 with talents)
325-345 "innate" hate
perks: generates a good amount of rage
negs: the mob must be focused on you for it to create aggro, takes hp, less with talents

Final words
Shield slam is very effective in its improved form, especially in raid situations where rage is hard to spend. Revenge is best used whenever possible, as any warrior could have told you before.

Although it may be unrelated to this thread, protection warriors need a tanking edge of more than 10% armor. Managing hate is the only thing protection warriors have a clear advantage in, but honestly, in the raiding game any warrior can hold aggro just fine. I came up with the idea of removing anticipation and replacing it with a high-tier protection talent that adds 33% to defense from items, but...well, that probably won't happen.

Certain skills like shield slam heavily favor low armor targets. The skill is immensely more useful on a fully sunderered or naturally low armor monster.

And finally, note that the 4.0 healing to damage ratio is only useful for a protection warrior in defensive stance with a priest that has the -20% threat talent. That number is more of a reference point for measuring everything else.

Thank you to everyone who helped me make corrections and adjustments along the way, especially Greysen and Olona.