Difference between revisions of "User:Staarkhand"
FierebladE (talk | contribs) m (My rogue build thoughts) |
FierebladE (talk | contribs) (Revised talent build/discussion - also added a weapon comparison of interest to rogues) |
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| − | Staark | + | Staark hit 60 and redid talents for the first of what I'm sure will be many times - at this point I was basically fixing mistakes. Over the course of later levels I've learned to like Imp Cheap Shot, consider Imp Rupture viable, and decided Imp Ambush wasn't going to work in groups - the damage is not a good trade off for the stun of CS. |
| − | + | ===Current Build=== | |
| + | My working build for the time being is a slight variation on the classic 21A/8C/22S build, with the only exception being the 3 points suggested for Imp Ambush have been put into Imp Rupture 2/3 and Imp CS 1/3 (I'd prefer to switch the amounts in these two skills, but it doesn't work because of the 20 pt reqs for Prep and Imp CS). | ||
| − | + | ===Considered Build=== | |
| + | My current spec is fairly vanilla and is historically derived from thinking about solo rogue PvP (only fighting with prep up, multiple vanishes/blinds/CBs/evasions), which I feel is a mistake - at least for the way I want to play - so I've been wanting to try something a bit different. A revelation was that it's possible to go with a dagger build and Imp BS without using Ambush (the low utility of which had been a mental block to me when considering dagger builds). The best way to do this is with Seal Fate 5/5, but the 8 points in Combat mean you really sacrifice Subtlety skills to get it. That build would look something like 30A/8C/13S. This would mean no Imp Sap, no Imp Rupture/CS, no Preparation and only 3/5 Inititive. My thoughts on losing these talents:<br> | ||
| − | + | Imp Sap: So far in instances this is a convenience only, especially in a raid, I'll have to PvP more but I suspect I'll never use it in a group. Primarily a solo skill.<br> | |
| + | Imp Rupture: Currently Rupture is being hurt by the limit on status effects an enemy can have (for further enlightenment ask any Warlock). I still think this is a great talent for high AC bosses but won't lose sleep over losing it as it's less likely to be used in group PvP.<br> | ||
| + | Imp Cheap Shot: This little beauty is really addictive as it allows you to CS, SS then gouge before the stun lifts (I can do this half the time with Imp CS 1/2, all the time with 2/2), or with 2/2 you can CS, SS, SS, and land a 5pt evis (75% of the time) just as the stun wears off. But in groups, especially raids, this isn't nearly as important. I can stand to lose it.<br> | ||
| + | Inititive: Extra combo points 45% of the time vs. 75% of the time from openers. Unacceptable for the solo rogue opening every encounter from stealth and ending it quickly. For the grouped rogue who only opens from stealth once a pull (discounting vanish), over time Seal Fate will give far more points (consider Imp Backstab will crit >50% with good gear).<br> | ||
| + | Preparation: This is a big hit. The ability to use timed skills twice in the encounter of your choosing is incredible. Leaving prep alone when out running around means you'll never lack an evasion for that add or a vanish for extra sticky situations. With prep up a rogue can handle rediculous encounters with multiple blinds, vanishes, evasions, and cold bloods. My initial reaction is that losing it is simply not an option, which is the reason I still have my current spec. However, a voice in my head asks if my thinking is still geared towards the way I have been playing the game - almost exclusively solo/duo questing, and not towards the way I will be playing - full groups and raids. | ||
| + | |||
| + | For now I only have an offhand dagger (fast), so it's a moot point. When I get a nice one I might burn some gold on trying that build out - I don't need a faster mount anyhow. | ||
| + | |||
| + | ===Other considerations=== | ||
| + | Deathstriker. When that proc goes it should be possible to get off evis (or SS), SS, and Evis again in 3 sec. Seal Fate makes a big difference in that second Evis. | ||
| + | |||
| + | That '''rediculous''' 47+ dps 2.9 speed (not a typo) mainhand sword that dropped in Molten Core this weekend really makes you want to try it out with SS. But let's compare: | ||
| + | |||
| + | |||
| + | ===Weapon Comparison=== | ||
| + | {| border="1" cellpadding="2" | ||
| + | |+ BS with Deathstriker vs. SS with X's Flaming Longsword (real name inc) | ||
| + | |Comparing:||Deathstriker||Longsword | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | |DPS/Spd || 45.6/1.7 || 47.x/2.9 | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | |Average Damage|| 77.5 || 137 | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | |Average SS Damage (x +72)|| (149.5) ''Won't be used in calculation'' || 209 | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | |Average BS Damage (1.5x + 210)|| 326.25 || n/a | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | |3 SS's for every 2 BS's||652.5||627 | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | |Otherwise consider Damage/Energy (SS = 40, BS = 60)||5.4375||5.225 | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | |Given 20 Energy/second this translates to Skill dps ||108.75||104.5 | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | |Opportunity Talent Modifier (+20% BS)||130.5||104.5 | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | |Modified by crit % (assume 20% SS, 50% BS, average 100% crit [''help me out here with a better number especially considering 30% bonus from Lethality''])||195.75||125.4 | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | |Combo Points Generated (compare 3 SS with no Seal Fate to 2 BS with Seal Fate 5/5 and 50% crit)||3||3 | ||
| + | |} | ||
| + | |||
| + | Let's not forget that the Proc from Deathstriker could easily translate into 1500+ damage from guaranteed hits/crits. | ||
| + | |||
| + | Looks like daggers really stack up well even given this ungodly mainhand weapon. And I haven't seen a dagger out there from Molten Core, so if only comes back with higher dps or especially with >1.7 speed it's definately all on. The only consideration is how often you have the opportunity to BS (should be high % if you're nimble and not offtanking). | ||
| + | |||
| + | It's worth noting that this comparison is mostly valid for the Barman Shanker, which is notably easier to get than Deathstriker - although the latter is hardly rare, and much easier to farm than a random Molten Core drop. | ||
| + | |||
| + | To complete this analysis I need the following info: | ||
| + | Does Seal Fate work with Ruthlessness (give 2 pts from a evis crit)? | ||
| + | Average melee crit modifier (I really should know this)? | ||
Revision as of 16:52, 31 January 2005
Tichondrius:
Staark - Troll/Rogue
Prophetic - Tauren/Shaman
Serpentis - Orc/Hunter
Staark hit 60 and redid talents for the first of what I'm sure will be many times - at this point I was basically fixing mistakes. Over the course of later levels I've learned to like Imp Cheap Shot, consider Imp Rupture viable, and decided Imp Ambush wasn't going to work in groups - the damage is not a good trade off for the stun of CS.
Current Build
My working build for the time being is a slight variation on the classic 21A/8C/22S build, with the only exception being the 3 points suggested for Imp Ambush have been put into Imp Rupture 2/3 and Imp CS 1/3 (I'd prefer to switch the amounts in these two skills, but it doesn't work because of the 20 pt reqs for Prep and Imp CS).
Considered Build
My current spec is fairly vanilla and is historically derived from thinking about solo rogue PvP (only fighting with prep up, multiple vanishes/blinds/CBs/evasions), which I feel is a mistake - at least for the way I want to play - so I've been wanting to try something a bit different. A revelation was that it's possible to go with a dagger build and Imp BS without using Ambush (the low utility of which had been a mental block to me when considering dagger builds). The best way to do this is with Seal Fate 5/5, but the 8 points in Combat mean you really sacrifice Subtlety skills to get it. That build would look something like 30A/8C/13S. This would mean no Imp Sap, no Imp Rupture/CS, no Preparation and only 3/5 Inititive. My thoughts on losing these talents:
Imp Sap: So far in instances this is a convenience only, especially in a raid, I'll have to PvP more but I suspect I'll never use it in a group. Primarily a solo skill.
Imp Rupture: Currently Rupture is being hurt by the limit on status effects an enemy can have (for further enlightenment ask any Warlock). I still think this is a great talent for high AC bosses but won't lose sleep over losing it as it's less likely to be used in group PvP.
Imp Cheap Shot: This little beauty is really addictive as it allows you to CS, SS then gouge before the stun lifts (I can do this half the time with Imp CS 1/2, all the time with 2/2), or with 2/2 you can CS, SS, SS, and land a 5pt evis (75% of the time) just as the stun wears off. But in groups, especially raids, this isn't nearly as important. I can stand to lose it.
Inititive: Extra combo points 45% of the time vs. 75% of the time from openers. Unacceptable for the solo rogue opening every encounter from stealth and ending it quickly. For the grouped rogue who only opens from stealth once a pull (discounting vanish), over time Seal Fate will give far more points (consider Imp Backstab will crit >50% with good gear).
Preparation: This is a big hit. The ability to use timed skills twice in the encounter of your choosing is incredible. Leaving prep alone when out running around means you'll never lack an evasion for that add or a vanish for extra sticky situations. With prep up a rogue can handle rediculous encounters with multiple blinds, vanishes, evasions, and cold bloods. My initial reaction is that losing it is simply not an option, which is the reason I still have my current spec. However, a voice in my head asks if my thinking is still geared towards the way I have been playing the game - almost exclusively solo/duo questing, and not towards the way I will be playing - full groups and raids.
For now I only have an offhand dagger (fast), so it's a moot point. When I get a nice one I might burn some gold on trying that build out - I don't need a faster mount anyhow.
Other considerations
Deathstriker. When that proc goes it should be possible to get off evis (or SS), SS, and Evis again in 3 sec. Seal Fate makes a big difference in that second Evis.
That rediculous 47+ dps 2.9 speed (not a typo) mainhand sword that dropped in Molten Core this weekend really makes you want to try it out with SS. But let's compare:
Weapon Comparison
| Comparing: | Deathstriker | Longsword |
| DPS/Spd | 45.6/1.7 | 47.x/2.9 |
| Average Damage | 77.5 | 137 |
| Average SS Damage (x +72) | (149.5) Won't be used in calculation | 209 |
| Average BS Damage (1.5x + 210) | 326.25 | n/a |
| 3 SS's for every 2 BS's | 652.5 | 627 |
| Otherwise consider Damage/Energy (SS = 40, BS = 60) | 5.4375 | 5.225 |
| Given 20 Energy/second this translates to Skill dps | 108.75 | 104.5 |
| Opportunity Talent Modifier (+20% BS) | 130.5 | 104.5 |
| Modified by crit % (assume 20% SS, 50% BS, average 100% crit [help me out here with a better number especially considering 30% bonus from Lethality]) | 195.75 | 125.4 |
| Combo Points Generated (compare 3 SS with no Seal Fate to 2 BS with Seal Fate 5/5 and 50% crit) | 3 | 3 |
Let's not forget that the Proc from Deathstriker could easily translate into 1500+ damage from guaranteed hits/crits.
Looks like daggers really stack up well even given this ungodly mainhand weapon. And I haven't seen a dagger out there from Molten Core, so if only comes back with higher dps or especially with >1.7 speed it's definately all on. The only consideration is how often you have the opportunity to BS (should be high % if you're nimble and not offtanking).
It's worth noting that this comparison is mostly valid for the Barman Shanker, which is notably easier to get than Deathstriker - although the latter is hardly rare, and much easier to farm than a random Molten Core drop.
To complete this analysis I need the following info: Does Seal Fate work with Ruthlessness (give 2 pts from a evis crit)? Average melee crit modifier (I really should know this)?