Difference between revisions of "Warrior Talent Ratings"

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'''These pages are quite out of date, and were written while we were all still leveling our toon is dec 04/ jan 05. left for posterity's sake.'''
 +
 
Rather than contributing a talent "build", I thought I would have us break down and evaluate the Warrior talents individually.  
 
Rather than contributing a talent "build", I thought I would have us break down and evaluate the Warrior talents individually.  
  
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−
=== Improved Heroic Strike / Deflection / Improved Rend === [http://www.aphasic.com/wow/basinwiki/index.php/Warrior_Arms_Talents#Improved_Heroic_Strike_.2F_Deflection_.2F_Improved_Rend Details]
+
=== Improved Heroic Strike / Deflection / Improved Rend === [http://wiki.theamazonbasin.com/index.php/Warrior_Arms_Talents#Improved_Heroic_Strike_.2F_Deflection_.2F_Improved_Rend Details]
  
 
'''Improved Heroic Strike''' - 3 points<br>
 
'''Improved Heroic Strike''' - 3 points<br>
−
*'''Utility Rank:''' 2/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
'''Utility Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
''Steaming Pile of... Well if you use it early and get rid of it on a respec it's OK''<br>
+
''If HS is going to be your main rage dump (i.e. low levels or specialized fast 1h build) it's OK, otherwise avoid.''<br>
−
*'''Cost Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
'''Cost Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
''5 points that could be better spent elsewhere, but luckily only 5''<br>
+
''3 points that could be better spent elsewhere, but luckily only 3''<br>
−
*'''Overall Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
'''Overall Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''People may giggle if you admit you have it, but they won't throw you out of the group...''<br>
 
''People may giggle if you admit you have it, but they won't throw you out of the group...''<br>
  
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<br>
 
<br>
  
−
=== Improved Charge / Tactical Mastery / Improved Thunder Clap === [http://www.aphasic.com/wow/basinwiki/index.php/Warrior_Arms_Talents#Improved_Charge_.2F_Tactical_Mastery_.2F_Improved_Thunder_Clap Details]
+
=== Improved Charge / Tactical Mastery / Improved Thunder Clap === [http://wiki.theamazonbasin.com/index.php/Warrior_Arms_Talents#Improved_Charge_.2F_Tactical_Mastery_.2F_Improved_Thunder_Clap Details]
  
 
'''Improved Charge'''<br>
 
'''Improved Charge'''<br>
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''Would be much higher if Charge worked in combat, but it doesn't.''<br>
 
''Would be much higher if Charge worked in combat, but it doesn't.''<br>
 
*'''Cost Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
*'''Cost Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
''Only worth the points if you can't think of ANYWHERE else to put them, but it's only 3.''<br>
+
''Only worth the points if you can't think of ANYWHERE else to put them, but it's only 2.''<br>
 
*'''Overall Rank:''' 2/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
*'''Overall Rank:''' 2/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Almost anything besides this is a better way to get the 10 Arms talents for the next tier.''
 
''Almost anything besides this is a better way to get the 10 Arms talents for the next tier.''
Line 73: Line 75:
  
 
=== Improved Overpower / Anger Management / Deep Wounds ===
 
=== Improved Overpower / Anger Management / Deep Wounds ===
−
[http://www.aphasic.com/wow/basinwiki/index.php/Warrior_Arms_Talents#Improved_Overpower_.2F_Anger_Management_.2F_Deep_Wounds Details]
+
[http://wiki.theamazonbasin.com/index.php/Warrior_Arms_Talents#Improved_Overpower_.2F_Anger_Management_.2F_Deep_Wounds Details]
  
 
'''Improved Overpower'''<br>
 
'''Improved Overpower'''<br>
Line 85: Line 87:
  
 
'''Anger Management'''<br>
 
'''Anger Management'''<br>
−
*'''Utility Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
'''Utility Rank:''' 7/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
''It's all about pacing...''<br>
+
''It's mostly about pacing, but extra rage during combat is always hard to turn down.''<br>
−
*'''Cost Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
'''Cost Rank:''' 8/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''You have to have 5 points in Tactical Mastery to get here, but there are worse things you could do with your talent points''<br>
 
''You have to have 5 points in Tactical Mastery to get here, but there are worse things you could do with your talent points''<br>
−
*'''Overall Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
'''Overall Rank:''' 7/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
''You won't know if you need this until you have a better feel for your personal play style.''
+
''You won't know if you need this until you have a better feel for your personal play style (& rage needs).''
  
  
Line 104: Line 106:
  
 
=== Two-Handed Weapon Specialization / Impale ===
 
=== Two-Handed Weapon Specialization / Impale ===
 +
[http://wiki.theamazonbasin.com/index.php/Warrior_Arms_Talents#Two-Handed_Weapon_Specialization_.2F_Impale Details]
  
−
'''Two-Handed Weapon Specialization''' - 5 points<br>
+
'''Two-Handed Weapon Specialization'''<br>
−
# Increases the damage you deal with two-handed weapons melee weapons by 1%.
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
# Increases the damage you deal with two-handed weapons melee weapons by 2%.
 
−
# Increases the damage you deal with two-handed weapons melee weapons by 3%.
 
−
# Increases the damage you deal with two-handed weapons melee weapons by 4%.
 
−
# Increases the damage you deal with two-handed weapons melee weapons by 5%.
 
−
 
 
−
If you want to be dishing out damage, you'll likely be using a two-handed weapon (dual wield has issues with missing too much). If you're using a shield a lot (i.e. tanking) this talent doesn't help much. I like this talent better than the more specific ones mainly for the flexibility. If you dump 5 points into axes, and then find a mace that's clearly better, you're stuck with 5 useless talent points. The 2H category is a safer bet.
 
−
 
 
−
That said, increasing damage by a 1% per talent point isn't too mind blowing. You're looking at an additional 15 damage on a hit of a high end 2H weapon.
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''Pretty middle of the road, but OK.''<br>
 
''Pretty middle of the road, but OK.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''If you're doing an Arms build, I can't think of a better way to get to the next tier, otherwise there are tempting options in other talent categories.''<br>
 
''If you're doing an Arms build, I can't think of a better way to get to the next tier, otherwise there are tempting options in other talent categories.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Hey, at least it's passive.''
 
''Hey, at least it's passive.''
  
  
−
'''Impale''' - 2 points<br>
+
'''Impale'''<br>
−
# Increases the critical strike damage done by your abilities in Battle, Defensive, and Berserker stance by 10%.
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
# Increases the critical strike damage done by your abilities in Battle, Defensive, and Berserker stance by 20%.
 
−
 
 
−
Don't jump too quickly on this talent - it does nothing for your damage when you crit a normal attack. Normal attacks are most of your damage. However, if you find yourself using special attacks that can crit (such as mortal strike and execute) all the time, then you may see decent returns here.
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''Doesn't trigger as often as one would like, but when it does it's handy.''<br>
 
''Doesn't trigger as often as one would like, but when it does it's handy.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 7/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 7/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Pre-reqs aren't too painful, and it's only a couple talent points either way.''<br>
 
''Pre-reqs aren't too painful, and it's only a couple talent points either way.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''A matter of personal style I guess...''
 
''A matter of personal style I guess...''
  
 +
 +
<br>
  
 
=== Axe Specialization / Sweeping Strikes / Mace Specialization / Sword Specialization ===
 
=== Axe Specialization / Sweeping Strikes / Mace Specialization / Sword Specialization ===
 +
[http://wiki.theamazonbasin.com/index.php/Warrior_Arms_Talents#Axe_Specialization_.2F_Sweeping_Strikes_.2F_Mace_Specialization_.2F_Sword_Specialization Details]
  
−
'''Sweeping Strikes''' - 1 point<br>
+
'''Sweeping Strikes'''<br>
−
# You next 5 melee weapon swings strike an additional nearby opponent.
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 9/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
 
 
−
This is a great skill, and the only way to use it is to get the talent. What puts Sweeping Strikes above Cleave is the fact that if you use a special attack while the skill is active, the special also strikes an additional opponent. Think doubled up Mortal Strikes. Combinig Sweeping Strikes with Cleave yields interesting results - give it a try! Even without specials stacking, this is a great skill.
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 9/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''If you get this far in the Arms tree, and don't pick up this Talent, you should be shot.''<br>
 
''If you get this far in the Arms tree, and don't pick up this Talent, you should be shot.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 8/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 8/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Getting here means giving up some other nice talents on other trees, but it's still a bargain.''<br>
 
''Getting here means giving up some other nice talents on other trees, but it's still a bargain.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 9/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 9/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Get it, use it, love it.''
 
''Get it, use it, love it.''
  
  
−
'''Axe Specialization''' - 5 points<br>
+
'''Axe Specialization'''<br>
−
# Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Axes by 1%.
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
# Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Axes by 2%.
 
−
# Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Axes by 3%.
 
−
# Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Axes by 4%.
 
−
# Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Axes by 5%.
 
−
 
 
−
It's a shame this talent can't be gotten along with Flurry. Consensus among the PvP crowd is that of all the Specializations, the critical strike % ones are the best (a lucky streak of several criticals in a row usually means a duel victory).
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''Personal Taste.''<br>
 
''Personal Taste.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Missed opportunity to get more valuable talents.''<br>
 
''Missed opportunity to get more valuable talents.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''All depends on your style and luck with aquiring the appropriate weapon.''<br>
 
''All depends on your style and luck with aquiring the appropriate weapon.''<br>
  
  
−
'''Mace Specialization''' - 5 points<br>
+
'''Mace Specialization'''<br>
−
# Gives you a 1% chance to stun your target for 3 seconds with a mace.
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
# Gives you a 2% chance to stun your target for 3 seconds with a mace.
 
−
# Gives you a 3% chance to stun your target for 3 seconds with a mace.
 
−
# Gives you a 4% chance to stun your target for 3 seconds with a mace.
 
−
# Gives you a 5% chance to stun your target for 3 seconds with a mace.
 
−
 
 
−
This is more for the defensive minded or group PvP types. It would be even better if there wasn't a diminishing returns on stuns vs. a single target, including stuns your party member may be trying to apply with better durations. Back when it was a bit easier to have both people swore by the combination of this talent and improved revenge (which also stuns).
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''Personal Taste.''<br>
 
''Personal Taste.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Missed opportunity to get more valuable talents.''<br>
 
''Missed opportunity to get more valuable talents.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''See if it works for you, but the diminishing returns put it below the others in this category, IMO.''<br>
 
''See if it works for you, but the diminishing returns put it below the others in this category, IMO.''<br>
  
  
−
'''Sword Specialization''' - 5 points<br>
+
'''Sword Specialization'''<br>
−
# Gives you a 1% chance to get an extra attack after dealing damage with your Sword.
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
# Gives you a 2% chance to get an extra attack after dealing damage with your Sword.
 
−
# Gives you a 3% chance to get an extra attack after dealing damage with your Sword.
 
−
# Gives you a 4% chance to get an extra attack after dealing damage with your Sword.
 
−
# Gives you a 5% chance to get an extra attack after dealing damage with your Sword.
 
−
 
 
−
Similar net effect as increasing critical damage, except the extra attack can miss. On the upside, if you're using a fast weapon with Unbridled Wrath, this would keep your rage building at a faster pace than the critical damage route (due to the Unbridled Wrath bonus rage).
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''Personal Taste.''<br>
 
''Personal Taste.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Missed opportunity to get more valuable talents.''<br>
 
''Missed opportunity to get more valuable talents.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''All depends on your style and luck with aquiring the appropriate weapon.''<br>
 
''All depends on your style and luck with aquiring the appropriate weapon.''<br>
  
  
 +
 +
<br>
  
 
=== Polearm Specialization / Improved Hamstring ===
 
=== Polearm Specialization / Improved Hamstring ===
 +
[http://wiki.theamazonbasin.com/index.php/Warrior_Arms_Talents#Polearm_Specialization_.2F_Improved_Hamstring Details]
  
−
'''Polearm Specialization''' - 5 points<br>
+
'''Polearm Specialization'''<br>
−
# Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Polearms by 1%.
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
# Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Polearms by 2%.
 
−
# Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Polearms by 3%.
 
−
# Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Polearms by 4%.
 
−
# Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Polearms by 5%.
 
−
 
 
−
Polearms/Spears (they're both in this category now) are generally the best weapons for Mortal Strike. Mortal Strike is the class favorite for damage output. For that reason, this specialization gets a slight nod, but the comments on Axe Specialization applies just as well here.
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''Very specified, but those going for the optimal Mortal Strike will end up going this route.''<br>
 
''Very specified, but those going for the optimal Mortal Strike will end up going this route.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Missed opportunities, but not the worst way to get to 30 arms.''<br>
 
''Missed opportunities, but not the worst way to get to 30 arms.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Just make sure you get your hands on a good polearm, or you'll feel silly taking this talent.''<br>
 
''Just make sure you get your hands on a good polearm, or you'll feel silly taking this talent.''<br>
  
  
−
'''Improved Hamstring''' - 2/2 points<br>
+
'''Improved Hamstring'''<br>
−
# Increases the movement slow effect of your Hamstring ability by 5%.
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
# Increases the movement slow effect of your Hamstring ability by 10%.
 
−
 
 
−
This talent was stealthed nerfed recently (IGN didn't even catch on) from 10% per point to 5% per point. The difference between 0 points and 2 points is if a PvP opponent is using a haste potion, the net effect after the 2 point hamstring is the normal run speed - so you may be able to keep up, whereas with 0 points they'll be slightly faster.
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''A shadow of the talent (and skill) it once was.''<br>
 
''A shadow of the talent (and skill) it once was.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Probably should be a higher rating, but I'm bitter about the 10%->5% nerf.''<br>
 
''Probably should be a higher rating, but I'm bitter about the 10%->5% nerf.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''It's a bad value for your talent points, but if you're a die hard PvP player you should still get it.''<br>
 
''It's a bad value for your talent points, but if you're a die hard PvP player you should still get it.''<br>
  
  
  
 +
<br>
  
 
=== Mortal Strike ===
 
=== Mortal Strike ===
 +
[http://wiki.theamazonbasin.com/index.php/Warrior_Arms_Talents#Mortal_Strike Details]
  
−
'''Mortal Strike''' - 1 point<br>
+
'''Mortal Strike'''<br>
−
# A vicious strike that deals 200% weapon damage and wounds the target, reducing the effectiveness of any healing by 50% for 10 seconds.
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 9/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
 
+
''Hey, I don't particularly like it, but I recognize it's very good...''<br>
−
Still the Warrior's best way of dealing damage. If you don't dump 30 talent points into Arms pre-requisites, you'll never get to try it. This is an instant attack, meaning the best weapon to use with it is the biggest, slowest 2hander you can find (usually a spear or polearm). If you are sneaky with your macros, you could conceivably have a 1h / shield setup (tanking) that swapped in a 2H for MS only and then swapped back... but that's another Wiki page...
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 8/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 10/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
−
''Hey, I don't particularly like it, but I recognize it's that good...''<br>
 
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 8/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''A lot of good talents in other trees are just barely out of reach. Them's the breaks.''<br>
 
''A lot of good talents in other trees are just barely out of reach. Them's the breaks.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 9/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 9/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Unless you have a very clear plan for your talents, this is the default end-goal talent.''<br>
 
''Unless you have a very clear plan for your talents, this is the default end-goal talent.''<br>
  
 +
[edit 1/28/05 - Docked utility by 1 due to the "nerf" in the previous patch (long overdue)]
 
----
 
----
 +
 +
 +
<br>
  
 
== FURY ==
 
== FURY ==
  
 
=== Booming Voice / Cruelty ===
 
=== Booming Voice / Cruelty ===
 +
[http://wiki.theamazonbasin.com/index.php/Warrior_Fury_Talents#Booming_Voice_.2F_Cruelty Details]
  
−
'''Booming Voice''' - 5 points<br>
+
'''Booming Voice'''<br>
−
# Increases the duration of your Battle Shout and Demoralizing Shout by 50% (10% per point).
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
 
 
−
I don't find it necessary to have longer durations on either of these shouts. Battle Shout can be renewed before a battle (hint: perfect use for bloodrage during downtime), and Demoralizing Shout is usually worth re-casting as each new shout helps generate aggro towards you (for tanking groups).
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''More useful if your playstyle leaves you without either of these shouts still active at the end of battle''<br>
 
''More useful if your playstyle leaves you without either of these shouts still active at the end of battle''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Can be picked up cheaply by nearly any build. Don't rush to 5 if 1 point here works for you.''<br>
 
''Can be picked up cheaply by nearly any build. Don't rush to 5 if 1 point here works for you.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Fine to get it, just know what you're trading off.''<br>
 
''Fine to get it, just know what you're trading off.''<br>
  
  
−
'''Cruelty''' - 5 points<br>
+
'''Cruelty'''<br>
−
# Increases your chance to get a critical strike with melee weapons by 5% (1% per point).
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 10/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
 
 
−
A tier 1 talent that has the same effect for all weapons that some high tier Arms talents way up the tree have only for a single wepaon. Gee... I wonder which is better?
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 10/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''More damage with any weapon you use. Avoid if you dislike dealing damage.''<br>
 
''More damage with any weapon you use. Avoid if you dislike dealing damage.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 9/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 9/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''If you have unused points, put them here before nearly anything else.''<br>
 
''If you have unused points, put them here before nearly anything else.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 9/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 9/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Great talent with no significant tradeoffs, what's not to like?''<br>
 
''Great talent with no significant tradeoffs, what's not to like?''<br>
  
Line 287: Line 236:
  
 
=== Improved Demoralizing Shout / Unbridled Wrath ===
 
=== Improved Demoralizing Shout / Unbridled Wrath ===
 +
[http://wiki.theamazonbasin.com/index.php/Warrior_Fury_Talents#Improved_Demoralizing_Shout_.2F_Unbridled_Wrath Details]
  
−
'''Improved Demoralizing Shout''' - 5 points<br>
+
'''Improved Demoralizing Shout'''<br>
−
# Increases the attack power reduction of your Demoralizing Shout by 25% (5% per point).
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 7/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
 
 
−
Demoralizing shout is available in every stance, and I highly reccomend casting it early in every battle whether you're tanking or soloing (exception: non-hostile nearby mobs you don't want to add with the short radius AoE). Putting talent points into boosting a skill that is used once nearly every battle (sometimes more) seems like a reasonable prospect. The 5% per point may not be the best bang for your buck, but the factor that usually tips the balance is access to Piercing Howl. Note that if a mob you've Demo Shouted happens to hit someone else (i.e. someone's offtanking or you aren't doing your job), the Demoralizing Shout effect helps the other party member.
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 7/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''Used often. Someone should do some methodical measuring of the net effect on damage taken, but until then it doesn't seem to hurt.''<br>
 
''Used often. Someone should do some methodical measuring of the net effect on damage taken, but until then it doesn't seem to hurt.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Most people won't put this many points on a talent like this unless they're working on something (piercing howl).''<br>
 
''Most people won't put this many points on a talent like this unless they're working on something (piercing howl).''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''A no brainer if you want P.Howl. Much more thought required otherwise.''<br>
 
''A no brainer if you want P.Howl. Much more thought required otherwise.''<br>
  
  
 
'''Unbridled Wrath''' - 5 points
 
'''Unbridled Wrath''' - 5 points
−
# Gives you a 40% chance to generate an additional Rage point when you deal melee damage (8% per point).
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
 
 
−
Rage generation is still a contentious subject these days. If you don't have enough of it, this talent is potentially a godsend. If you have too much of it (pheh! no such thing!) then any points in this talent are a total waste. Hard part is, there are tons of variables involved in whether you have too little or enough rage - so the only real way to find out is to play your warrior and see what you need. My reccomendation is, if you're mostly using a fast weapon (dagger/shield for example) get this talent - if you're mostly using a slow weapon (MS user perhaps?) skip this talent. If you're a fast weapon user and get the talent and find you have ''too much'' rage, then respec and get rid of it...
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''Hard to say. 10/10 for some folks, 0/10 for others. Will refine the ranking after more testing.''<br>
 
''Hard to say. 10/10 for some folks, 0/10 for others. Will refine the ranking after more testing.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Often comes into play at a stage of talent distribution where points are tight. If fewer than 5 points does the trick for you, don't waste extra talent points here.''<br>
 
''Often comes into play at a stage of talent distribution where points are tight. If fewer than 5 points does the trick for you, don't waste extra talent points here.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Don't jump on this one early unless you're really frustrated by poor rage generation. Grab it once you understand your rage needs.''<br>
 
''Don't jump on this one early unless you're really frustrated by poor rage generation. Grab it once you understand your rage needs.''<br>
  
  
 
=== Improved Cleave / Piercing Howl / Blood Craze / Improved Battle Shout ===
 
=== Improved Cleave / Piercing Howl / Blood Craze / Improved Battle Shout ===
 +
[http://wiki.theamazonbasin.com/index.php/Warrior_Fury_Talents#Improved_Cleave_.2F_Piercing_Howl_.2F_Blood_Craze_.2F_Improved_Battle_Shout Details]
  
−
'''Improved Cleave''' - 3 points
+
'''Improved Cleave'''<br>
−
# Increases the bonus damage done by your Cleave ability by 60% (20% per point).
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
 
 
−
With or without this talent, Cleave is a bit of a rage hog. In addition to the rage cost, you don't generate rage on the Cleave hits, nor on the following normal hit. This is not an instant skill, meaning it takes the place of a regular strike. With a really slow weapon, that can leave you without rage for a while.
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''More damage is always a nice attribute, but are you a cleave user?''<br>
 
''More damage is always a nice attribute, but are you a cleave user?''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Doesn't feel like a good value. Those who saw the beta version still miss their extra hits.''<br>
 
''Doesn't feel like a good value. Those who saw the beta version still miss their extra hits.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''A viable option in a fury build, but nothing overwhelming..''<br>
 
''A viable option in a fury build, but nothing overwhelming..''<br>
  
  
−
'''Piercing Howl''' - 1 point
+
'''Piercing Howl'''<br>
−
# Causes all enemies near the warrior to be dazed for 6 seconds.
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 9/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
 
 
−
Another one of those skills that you don't get unless you buy the talent. The skill is usable in all stances, and is very useful. When tanking, add it to the mix (in addition to Demoralizing Shout) when trying to hold multiple opponents. If you happen to lose aggro on one, the Daze effect will keep them from closing in on their new target too quickly. Also excellent for escapes when pulls go wrong. Monsters often daze you if you turn your back, why not daze them back and even the odds? Finally, it's just more practical than trying to keep hamstring active on everything.
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 9/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''Perhaps not a bread and butter source of damage, but there is something to be said for a skill that can save your butt or the life of a friend.''<br>
 
''Perhaps not a bread and butter source of damage, but there is something to be said for a skill that can save your butt or the life of a friend.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 7/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 7/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''A better use of points for a defensive player than most options in the upper Defensive talent tree. Pre-reqs not too painful.''<br>
 
''A better use of points for a defensive player than most options in the upper Defensive talent tree. Pre-reqs not too painful.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 8/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 8/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''See if you can fit it in your talent plan. Not the end of the world if you can't, but it's very nice to have.''<br>
 
''See if you can fit it in your talent plan. Not the end of the world if you can't, but it's very nice to have.''<br>
  
  
  
−
'''Blood Craze''' - 3 points
+
'''Blood Craze'''<br>
−
# Allows 15% of your Health regeneration to work during combat for 20 seconds after being the victim of a critical strike (5% per point).
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 3.5/10 (2 people rating)<br>
−
 
 
−
An extra passive that gives you more life when you're using it... sounds good on paper. Those who actually use this talent and have observed the life regained as a result usually aren't too positive about its value.
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''Probably ranked higher than it's worth due to my love of passives. A mediocre talent that is constantly helping you without your having to think about it is better than a fantastic talent that you never remember to use.''<br>
 
''Probably ranked higher than it's worth due to my love of passives. A mediocre talent that is constantly helping you without your having to think about it is better than a fantastic talent that you never remember to use.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 3.5/10 (2 people rating)<br>
 
''Not a good value for this far up the Fury tree.''<br>
 
''Not a good value for this far up the Fury tree.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 4/10 (2 people rating)<br>
−
''Something to throw in as an afterthought on a Fury plan.''<br>
+
''Something to throw in as an afterthought on a Fury plan. "Worse than improved thunder clap." (ouch)''<br>
−
 
 
−
 
 
−
'''Improved Battle Shout''' - 5 points
 
−
# Increases the Attack Power bonus of your Battle Shout by 25% (5% per point).
 
  
−
Similar to Demoralizing shout, the real benefit of these attack power adjustments isn't well understood. As one of the Warrior's few self-buffs, Battle Shout is worth keeping up at least in one's downtime (hint: great use for bloodrage before a big fight). In groups, this will only help the other party members who do melee damage, whereas Demoralizing shout is damage reduction for everyone in the party.
 
  
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
'''Improved Battle Shout'''<br>
 +
*'''Utility Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Add a couple rank points if you religiously keep battle shout up.''<br>
 
''Add a couple rank points if you religiously keep battle shout up.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Would be an OK first tier talent. A tough sell in its current position.''<br>
 
''Would be an OK first tier talent. A tough sell in its current position.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Bottom line, it's probably not worth the points this high up in the tree.''<br>
 
''Bottom line, it's probably not worth the points this high up in the tree.''<br>
−
 
−
 
−
 
−
 
  
 
=== Improved Execute / Enrage ===
 
=== Improved Execute / Enrage ===
 +
[http://wiki.theamazonbasin.com/index.php/Warrior_Fury_Talents#Improved_Execute_.2F_Enrage Details]
  
−
'''Improved Execute''' - 2 points
+
'''Improved Execute'''<br>
−
# Reduces the Rage cost of your Execute ability by 2.
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
# Reduces the Rage cost of your Execute ability by 5.
 
−
 
 
−
Execute is a very nice skill, and many warriors have fallen in love with it, especially as a sudden end to PvP encounters / duels. When timing is of the essence, having this skill available with only 10 rage instead of needing 15 rage can make the difference between killing or being killed. On the flip side, that exact scenario isn't exactly an all the time occurrence for most people. Then of course, there's the scenario where you have more than enough rage - each point saved by this talent gains you 15 more damage.
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''Players who spend most of their time in battle/beserk stance (talent tree != stance choice btw) should consider this strongly.''<br>
 
''Players who spend most of their time in battle/beserk stance (talent tree != stance choice btw) should consider this strongly.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 7/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 7/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''A noticable improvement per talent point. Surplus rage turns into more damage anyway.''<br>
 
''A noticable improvement per talent point. Surplus rage turns into more damage anyway.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Good talent, but if you're conserving points on this tier Enrage is a tad better.''<br>
 
''Good talent, but if you're conserving points on this tier Enrage is a tad better.''<br>
  
  
−
'''Enrage''' - 5 points
+
'''Enrage'''<br>
−
# Gives you a 40% melee damage bonus for 4 swings any time you are the victim of a critical strike (8% per point).
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 7/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
 
 
−
It's passive. Ironically, the character types least focused on dishing out damage (dedicated tanks) are the ones who would see it trigger the most often. Solo / PvP oriented warriors complain that it doesn't go off enough. If you do get the talent, and do notice this talent activating, consider switching to a big slow 2H weapon for the 4 boosted attacks.
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 7/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''If you often find yourself surrounded by 3 or more melee enemies, this is a nice choice. Stay away if you don't enjoy dealing damage.''<br>
 
''If you often find yourself surrounded by 3 or more melee enemies, this is a nice choice. Stay away if you don't enjoy dealing damage.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 7/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 7/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Passives are always a good value.''<br>
 
''Passives are always a good value.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 7/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 7/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''The best talent of this tier by a hair. Solo / PvP focused players should skip.''<br>
 
''The best talent of this tier by a hair. Solo / PvP focused players should skip.''<br>
  
Line 403: Line 318:
  
 
=== Improved Slam / Death Wish / Improved Intercept ===
 
=== Improved Slam / Death Wish / Improved Intercept ===
 +
[http://wiki.theamazonbasin.com/index.php/Warrior_Fury_Talents#Improved_Slam_.2F_Death_Wish_.2F_Improved_Intercept Details]
  
−
'''Improved Slam''' - 5 points
+
'''Improved Slam'''<br>
−
# Decreases the casting time of your Slam ability by 0.5 seconds (0.1 seconds per point).
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
 
 
−
Slam is interruptable. Slam is interruptable. Did I mention it was interruptable? To make an argument in it's favor, if you don't get interrupted using a giant 3.3 speed weapon at the equivalent of 1.0 speed will boost your average DPS by just a tad... If you can pull the keystrokes/scripting/macros the following combo is nice: concussion blow (with fast weapon)->2h (slow) weapon swap->Slam->Slam->Slam->Slam (pretty darn good use of a full rage bar for those w/o Mortal Strike). Slam does full damage to targets that otherwise get reduced damage due to level difference. Oh, and it's interruptable.
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''After reading the above, if you still plan on using slam, consider the talent. The original 1.5 speed isn't too bad to begin with, however.''<br>
 
''After reading the above, if you still plan on using slam, consider the talent. The original 1.5 speed isn't too bad to begin with, however.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Not a good benefit per talent point. Save yourself some grief and buy a passive talent elsewhere.''<br>
 
''Not a good benefit per talent point. Save yourself some grief and buy a passive talent elsewhere.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Slam is interruptable.''<br>
 
''Slam is interruptable.''<br>
  
  
−
'''Death Wish''' - 1 point
+
'''Death Wish'''<br>
−
# When activated, increases your melee damage by 20% and makes you immune to fear, but lowers your defense against all types of damage by 20%. Lasts 30 seconds.
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
 
 
−
Immune to fear for 30 seconds? Yeah, that has its uses. This doesn't break fear already cast (I think, not personally confirmed), but Beserker Rage does (also unconfirmed). So use Beserker Rage first to break, then right before it expires activate death wish. If you don't get the talent, you can't use the skill.
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''A very situational talent, but when that situation arises, you will be very glad you have it.''<br>
 
''A very situational talent, but when that situation arises, you will be very glad you have it.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Only one point, but you're looking at a lot of fury points to get there.''<br>
 
''Only one point, but you're looking at a lot of fury points to get there.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Are you afraid of fear? You don't have to be.''<br>
 
''Are you afraid of fear? You don't have to be.''<br>
  
  
−
'''Improved Intercept''' - 2 points
+
'''Improved Intercept'''<br>
−
# Reduces the cooldown of your Intercept ability by 10 seconds (5 seconds per point).
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
 
 
−
When charge in combat was taken away, end users suggested ideas very much like what ended up as the Intercept talent. It costs rage instead of giving it, but it works in combat as an excellent way to stay with enemies that are kiting you. As for situations where using the skill every 20 seconds instead of every 30 seconds, I can only think of one: PvP. If you are absolutely determined to hunt down all the cowardly dogs (or humans as the case may be) who refuse to stand and fight you - you'll know you want these two points without reading some wikki page.
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''Like the skill, but many people can live with the non-talent cooldown.''<br>
 
''Like the skill, but many people can live with the non-talent cooldown.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Not bad as far as benefit per talent point, but it's up there in the fury tree.''<br>
 
''Not bad as far as benefit per talent point, but it's up there in the fury tree.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 5/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''Either indispensible or worthless. How much do you enjoy killing players?''<br>
 
''Either indispensible or worthless. How much do you enjoy killing players?''<br>
  
Line 446: Line 350:
  
 
=== Improved Berserker Rage / Flurry ===
 
=== Improved Berserker Rage / Flurry ===
 +
[http://wiki.theamazonbasin.com/index.php/Warrior_Fury_Talents#Improved_Berserker_Rage_.2F_Flurry Details]
  
−
'''Improved Berserker Rage''' - 2 points
+
'''Improved Berserker Rage'''<br>
−
# Increases the duration of your Berserker Rage ability by 6 seconds (3 seconds per point).
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
 
 
−
Beserker rage normally has a 10 second duration. Is that enough for you to hunt down and kill whoever is fearing you? Probably not. Is 16 seconds enough time? Probably not. However, the entire cooldown is 30 seconds, so with the talent you only have 14 seconds where you can't counter fear.
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 4/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''A very situational talent, and when the situation arrives, it may still not help that much.''<br>
 
''A very situational talent, and when the situation arrives, it may still not help that much.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 2/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 2/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''By this point in the talent tree, points are scarce, and you should really consider flurry instead if there's any question of a tradeoff.''<br>
 
''By this point in the talent tree, points are scarce, and you should really consider flurry instead if there's any question of a tradeoff.''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''If I ever play a warlock, I'll remember to re-fear warriors 17 seconds later...''<br>
 
''If I ever play a warlock, I'll remember to re-fear warriors 17 seconds later...''<br>
  
  
  
−
'''Flurry''' - 5 points
+
'''Flurry'''
−
# Increases your attack speed by 10% for your next 3 swings after dealing a critical strike.
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 8/10 (1 person rating)<br>
−
# Increases your attack speed by 15% for your next 3 swings after dealing a critical strike.
 
−
# Increases your attack speed by 20% for your next 3 swings after dealing a critical strike.
 
−
# Increases your attack speed by 25% for your next 3 swings after dealing a critical strike.
 
−
# Increases your attack speed by 30% for your next 3 swings after dealing a critical strike.
 
−
 
 
−
Skipping the mathmatical proof, but you can work out for yourself that each rank of flurry gives a constant percentage increase in average DPS regardless of weapon speed or original DPS (42.8% more average DPS). Of course, if your 2h weapon has more original DPS than your main hand / dual wield setup, then it will net you more damage under a flurry. The flip side is a fast weapon is more likely to trigger a flurry. The obvious solution for the macro happy out there (from a pure damage output standpoint): use fast weapons to trigger flurry and quickly swap in a big slow 2h weapon for the 3 faster swings. Even better (when appropriate): use the faster swings for cleave attacks.
 
−
 
 
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 8/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
 
''A passive that results in better damage over time.''<br>
 
''A passive that results in better damage over time.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 6/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''All those wonderful arms talents that boost critical hit % are just out of reach... sush a shame. If you get this talent and haven't gotten cruelty, you probably should go back to the Hello Kitty MMORPG. (note: I like Kitty as much as the next guy, I just don't think many of her fans understand the word "synergy".)''<br>
 
''All those wonderful arms talents that boost critical hit % are just out of reach... sush a shame. If you get this talent and haven't gotten cruelty, you probably should go back to the Hello Kitty MMORPG. (note: I like Kitty as much as the next guy, I just don't think many of her fans understand the word "synergy".)''<br>
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 7/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 7/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
''If you chose not to get Mortal Strike, this isn't a bad cornerstone of an alternate talent build.''<br>
 
''If you chose not to get Mortal Strike, this isn't a bad cornerstone of an alternate talent build.''<br>
  
Line 480: Line 373:
  
 
=== Bloodthirst ===
 
=== Bloodthirst ===
 +
[http://wiki.theamazonbasin.com/index.php/Warrior_Fury_Talents#Bloodthirst Details]
  
−
'''Bloodthirst''' - 1 point
+
'''Bloodthirst'''<br>
−
# Activates after dealing a killing blow. Your next melee weapon attack deals a 100% increased damage.
+
*'''Utility Rank:''' 6/10 (2 people rating)<br>
−
 
+
''If you get the killing blow (doubtful in a group), you'd better hustle to get that next attack in because the bloodthirst state wears off quickly. Alternate view: great for grinding green mobs solo.''<br>
−
Sounds kind of nice, doesn't it? Well, if you google for it, you may find a video of a Warrior killing at an insane rate thanks to this talent. About 10 minutes after that video reached the right eyes at Blizzard, this talent was crippled and remains so to this day. I don't recall the exact details, but suffice to say I haven't heard a single argument for it other than "I have 30 fury skills anyway - might as well".
+
*'''Cost Rank:''' 5/10 (2 people rating)<br>
−
 
+
''Yes, it's 1 more point, but by taking it you are losing all possibility of either concussion blow or sweeping strikes. Some consider that a fair tradeoff.''<br>
−
'''Utility Rank:''' 3/10 (1 person rating)<br>
+
*'''Overall Rank:''' 5.5/10 (2 people rating)<br>
−
''If you get the killing blow (doubtful in a group), you'd better hustle to get that next attack in because the bloodthirst state wears off quickly.''<br>
+
''Just because it's at the top of the talent tree doesn't mean it's good (as we'll see in protection too). Good if you're the one doing all the killing without significant downtime.''<br>
−
'''Cost Rank:''' 1/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
−
''Yes, it's 1 more point, but by taking it you are losing all possibility of either concussion blow or sweeping strikes. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?!?''<br>
 
−
'''Overall Rank:''' 2/10 (1 person rating)<br>
 
−
''Just because it's at the top of the talent tree doesn't mean it's good (as we'll see in protection too).''<br>
 
  
 
== PROTECTION ==
 
== PROTECTION ==
−
 
+
--UNDER CONSTRUCTION--
  
 
=== Shield Specialization / Anticipation ===
 
=== Shield Specialization / Anticipation ===
Line 525: Line 415:
  
 
Back to [[Warrior]] Index.
 
Back to [[Warrior]] Index.
 +
 +
 +
[[Category:World of Warcraft]]

Latest revision as of 12:00, 18 May 2011

These pages are quite out of date, and were written while we were all still leveling our toon is dec 04/ jan 05. left for posterity's sake.

Rather than contributing a talent "build", I thought I would have us break down and evaluate the Warrior talents individually.

Each Talent has a Utility ranking (how good it is, on a 1-10 scale, ignoring pre-requisites), a Cost ranking (1 being too many poor utility pre-requisites, 10 meaning it's worth the point investment to get it nomatter what), and an Overall ranking (subjective combination of the two factors).

On some of these talents I am not speaking from direct experience, so please feel free to adjust any ratings/descriptions you feel are off. If enough people tweak the ranks, I will go through the history and edit the rank to reflect an average of current patch rankings (feel free to adjust the average yourself if you want to crunch the numbers).

ARMS

=== Improved Heroic Strike / Deflection / Improved Rend === Details

Improved Heroic Strike - 3 points
Utility Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)
If HS is going to be your main rage dump (i.e. low levels or specialized fast 1h build) it's OK, otherwise avoid.
Cost Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)
3 points that could be better spent elsewhere, but luckily only 3
Overall Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)
People may giggle if you admit you have it, but they won't throw you out of the group...


Deflection - 5 points

  • Utility Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)

Belongs in any defensive minded "protection spec" even though it's in Arms

  • Cost Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)

Absolutely worth the points unless your plan has no room for it.

  • Overall Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)

Just get it already...


Improved Rend - 3 points

  • Utility Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)

A nice talent, but depends on a skill use. Also a pre-requisite for an excellent passive talent.

  • Cost Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)

When you're tight on points, you may be able to live without it. You can still use the plain skill.

  • Overall Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)

Belongs in most Arms builds, but other builds can skip it.



=== Improved Charge / Tactical Mastery / Improved Thunder Clap === Details

Improved Charge

  • Utility Rank: 1/10 (1 person rating)

Would be much higher if Charge worked in combat, but it doesn't.

  • Cost Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)

Only worth the points if you can't think of ANYWHERE else to put them, but it's only 2.

  • Overall Rank: 2/10 (1 person rating)

Almost anything besides this is a better way to get the 10 Arms talents for the next tier.


Tactical Mastery

  • Utility Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

If you see a tactical use for it that you MUST do, then you need it, otherwise you don't.

  • Cost Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)

A better way to get to 10 Arms points than Charge/Thunderclap talents.

  • Overall Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)

A good talent, but far from mandatory.


Improved Thunder Clap

  • Utility Rank: 2/10 (1 person rating)

Extra damage on a weak, barely used skill... whee! Still better than the Charge talent, IMO.

  • Cost Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)

Every talent point is precious. Friends don't let friends get the Thunder Clap talent.

  • Overall Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)

Out of witty comments...



Improved Overpower / Anger Management / Deep Wounds

Details

Improved Overpower

  • Utility Rank: 8/10 (1 person rating)

An opportunity to nearly double the damage on what was already a highly efficient damage dealing skill.

  • Cost Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)

To get to this tier, you sometimes need to make some sacrifices, but as Arms is so popular, not penalized too much.

  • Overall Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)

Get it if you plan to be in Battle Stance a lot.


Anger Management
Utility Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)
It's mostly about pacing, but extra rage during combat is always hard to turn down.
Cost Rank: 8/10 (1 person rating)
You have to have 5 points in Tactical Mastery to get here, but there are worse things you could do with your talent points
Overall Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)
You won't know if you need this until you have a better feel for your personal play style (& rage needs).


Deep Wounds

  • Utility Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)

Less if you have a wimpy weapon...

  • Cost Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)

Docked a little for being a 10 req tier talent, but the Rend pre-requisite isn't a big detraction.

  • Overall Rank: 8/10 (1 person rating)

Passive talents are great!


Two-Handed Weapon Specialization / Impale

Details

Two-Handed Weapon Specialization

  • Utility Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)

Pretty middle of the road, but OK.

  • Cost Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)

If you're doing an Arms build, I can't think of a better way to get to the next tier, otherwise there are tempting options in other talent categories.

  • Overall Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)

Hey, at least it's passive.


Impale

  • Utility Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)

Doesn't trigger as often as one would like, but when it does it's handy.

  • Cost Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)

Pre-reqs aren't too painful, and it's only a couple talent points either way.

  • Overall Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

A matter of personal style I guess...



Axe Specialization / Sweeping Strikes / Mace Specialization / Sword Specialization

Details

Sweeping Strikes

  • Utility Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)

If you get this far in the Arms tree, and don't pick up this Talent, you should be shot.

  • Cost Rank: 8/10 (1 person rating)

Getting here means giving up some other nice talents on other trees, but it's still a bargain.

  • Overall Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)

Get it, use it, love it.


Axe Specialization

  • Utility Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

Personal Taste.

  • Cost Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

Missed opportunity to get more valuable talents.

  • Overall Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

All depends on your style and luck with aquiring the appropriate weapon.


Mace Specialization

  • Utility Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)

Personal Taste.

  • Cost Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

Missed opportunity to get more valuable talents.

  • Overall Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)

See if it works for you, but the diminishing returns put it below the others in this category, IMO.


Sword Specialization

  • Utility Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

Personal Taste.

  • Cost Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

Missed opportunity to get more valuable talents.

  • Overall Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

All depends on your style and luck with aquiring the appropriate weapon.



Polearm Specialization / Improved Hamstring

Details

Polearm Specialization

  • Utility Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)

Very specified, but those going for the optimal Mortal Strike will end up going this route.

  • Cost Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)

Missed opportunities, but not the worst way to get to 30 arms.

  • Overall Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)

Just make sure you get your hands on a good polearm, or you'll feel silly taking this talent.


Improved Hamstring

  • Utility Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)

A shadow of the talent (and skill) it once was.

  • Cost Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)

Probably should be a higher rating, but I'm bitter about the 10%->5% nerf.

  • Overall Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

It's a bad value for your talent points, but if you're a die hard PvP player you should still get it.



Mortal Strike

Details

Mortal Strike

  • Utility Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)

Hey, I don't particularly like it, but I recognize it's very good...

  • Cost Rank: 8/10 (1 person rating)

A lot of good talents in other trees are just barely out of reach. Them's the breaks.

  • Overall Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)

Unless you have a very clear plan for your talents, this is the default end-goal talent.

[edit 1/28/05 - Docked utility by 1 due to the "nerf" in the previous patch (long overdue)]



FURY

Booming Voice / Cruelty

Details

Booming Voice

  • Utility Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)

More useful if your playstyle leaves you without either of these shouts still active at the end of battle

  • Cost Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)

Can be picked up cheaply by nearly any build. Don't rush to 5 if 1 point here works for you.

  • Overall Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

Fine to get it, just know what you're trading off.


Cruelty

  • Utility Rank: 10/10 (1 person rating)

More damage with any weapon you use. Avoid if you dislike dealing damage.

  • Cost Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)

If you have unused points, put them here before nearly anything else.

  • Overall Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)

Great talent with no significant tradeoffs, what's not to like?


Improved Demoralizing Shout / Unbridled Wrath

Details

Improved Demoralizing Shout

  • Utility Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)

Used often. Someone should do some methodical measuring of the net effect on damage taken, but until then it doesn't seem to hurt.

  • Cost Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

Most people won't put this many points on a talent like this unless they're working on something (piercing howl).

  • Overall Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)

A no brainer if you want P.Howl. Much more thought required otherwise.


Unbridled Wrath - 5 points

  • Utility Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

Hard to say. 10/10 for some folks, 0/10 for others. Will refine the ranking after more testing.

  • Cost Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

Often comes into play at a stage of talent distribution where points are tight. If fewer than 5 points does the trick for you, don't waste extra talent points here.

  • Overall Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

Don't jump on this one early unless you're really frustrated by poor rage generation. Grab it once you understand your rage needs.


Improved Cleave / Piercing Howl / Blood Craze / Improved Battle Shout

Details

Improved Cleave

  • Utility Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)

More damage is always a nice attribute, but are you a cleave user?

  • Cost Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

Doesn't feel like a good value. Those who saw the beta version still miss their extra hits.

  • Overall Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)

A viable option in a fury build, but nothing overwhelming..


Piercing Howl

  • Utility Rank: 9/10 (1 person rating)

Perhaps not a bread and butter source of damage, but there is something to be said for a skill that can save your butt or the life of a friend.

  • Cost Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)

A better use of points for a defensive player than most options in the upper Defensive talent tree. Pre-reqs not too painful.

  • Overall Rank: 8/10 (1 person rating)

See if you can fit it in your talent plan. Not the end of the world if you can't, but it's very nice to have.


Blood Craze

  • Utility Rank: 3.5/10 (2 people rating)

Probably ranked higher than it's worth due to my love of passives. A mediocre talent that is constantly helping you without your having to think about it is better than a fantastic talent that you never remember to use.

  • Cost Rank: 3.5/10 (2 people rating)

Not a good value for this far up the Fury tree.

  • Overall Rank: 4/10 (2 people rating)

Something to throw in as an afterthought on a Fury plan. "Worse than improved thunder clap." (ouch)


Improved Battle Shout

  • Utility Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)

Add a couple rank points if you religiously keep battle shout up.

  • Cost Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)

Would be an OK first tier talent. A tough sell in its current position.

  • Overall Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)

Bottom line, it's probably not worth the points this high up in the tree.

Improved Execute / Enrage

Details

Improved Execute

  • Utility Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)

Players who spend most of their time in battle/beserk stance (talent tree != stance choice btw) should consider this strongly.

  • Cost Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)

A noticable improvement per talent point. Surplus rage turns into more damage anyway.

  • Overall Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)

Good talent, but if you're conserving points on this tier Enrage is a tad better.


Enrage

  • Utility Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)

If you often find yourself surrounded by 3 or more melee enemies, this is a nice choice. Stay away if you don't enjoy dealing damage.

  • Cost Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)

Passives are always a good value.

  • Overall Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)

The best talent of this tier by a hair. Solo / PvP focused players should skip.


Improved Slam / Death Wish / Improved Intercept

Details

Improved Slam

  • Utility Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)

After reading the above, if you still plan on using slam, consider the talent. The original 1.5 speed isn't too bad to begin with, however.

  • Cost Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)

Not a good benefit per talent point. Save yourself some grief and buy a passive talent elsewhere.

  • Overall Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)

Slam is interruptable.


Death Wish

  • Utility Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)

A very situational talent, but when that situation arises, you will be very glad you have it.

  • Cost Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)

Only one point, but you're looking at a lot of fury points to get there.

  • Overall Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

Are you afraid of fear? You don't have to be.


Improved Intercept

  • Utility Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

Like the skill, but many people can live with the non-talent cooldown.

  • Cost Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)

Not bad as far as benefit per talent point, but it's up there in the fury tree.

  • Overall Rank: 5/10 (1 person rating)

Either indispensible or worthless. How much do you enjoy killing players?



Improved Berserker Rage / Flurry

Details

Improved Berserker Rage

  • Utility Rank: 4/10 (1 person rating)

A very situational talent, and when the situation arrives, it may still not help that much.

  • Cost Rank: 2/10 (1 person rating)

By this point in the talent tree, points are scarce, and you should really consider flurry instead if there's any question of a tradeoff.

  • Overall Rank: 3/10 (1 person rating)

If I ever play a warlock, I'll remember to re-fear warriors 17 seconds later...


Flurry

  • Utility Rank: 8/10 (1 person rating)

A passive that results in better damage over time.

  • Cost Rank: 6/10 (1 person rating)

All those wonderful arms talents that boost critical hit % are just out of reach... sush a shame. If you get this talent and haven't gotten cruelty, you probably should go back to the Hello Kitty MMORPG. (note: I like Kitty as much as the next guy, I just don't think many of her fans understand the word "synergy".)

  • Overall Rank: 7/10 (1 person rating)

If you chose not to get Mortal Strike, this isn't a bad cornerstone of an alternate talent build.


Bloodthirst

Details

Bloodthirst

  • Utility Rank: 6/10 (2 people rating)

If you get the killing blow (doubtful in a group), you'd better hustle to get that next attack in because the bloodthirst state wears off quickly. Alternate view: great for grinding green mobs solo.

  • Cost Rank: 5/10 (2 people rating)

Yes, it's 1 more point, but by taking it you are losing all possibility of either concussion blow or sweeping strikes. Some consider that a fair tradeoff.

  • Overall Rank: 5.5/10 (2 people rating)

Just because it's at the top of the talent tree doesn't mean it's good (as we'll see in protection too). Good if you're the one doing all the killing without significant downtime.

PROTECTION

--UNDER CONSTRUCTION--

Shield Specialization / Anticipation

Improved Bloodrage / Toughness / Iron Will

Last Stand / Improved Shield Block / Improved Revenge / Defiance

Improved Sunder Armor / Improved Disarm / Improved Taunt

Improved Shield Wall / Improved Shield Bash / Concussion Blow

One-Handed Weapon Specialization

Shield Discipline

--UNDER CONSTRUCTION--



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